Don't mean it's a chemical that the human being so deeply desired and we've now been given very quick ways to access it. Are you wanting a life where you're in the pursuit of pleasure and just like momentarily feeling good or do you want like a really happy, fulfilling experience a life.

Don't mean it's a chemical that the human being so deeply desired and we've now been given very quick ways to access it. Are you wanting a life where you're in the pursuit of pleasure and just like momentarily feeling good or do you want like a really happy, fulfilling experience a life.

He's a neuroscientist and author TJ.

He's a neuroscientist and author TJ.

Power. Pornography is like this secret addiction, and that's why I think it's being massively underestimated.

Power. Pornography is like this secret addiction, and that's why I think it's being massively underestimated.

You have habits and systems to increase concentration and deep focus by forty eight percent. Yeah, what are they?

You have habits and systems to increase concentration and deep focus by forty eight percent. Yeah, what are they?

The number one health and wellness podcast.

The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shedy J Sheddy Only Sheet. Everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Today's guest is someone that I've been really excited to speak to. His name's TJ.

Jay Shedy J Sheddy Only Sheet. Everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Today's guest is someone that I've been really excited to speak to. His name's TJ.

Power.

Power.

He's a neuroscientist and author dedicated to understanding how modern lifestyle habits shape brain chemistry and emotional well being in the digital age. His upcoming book, The Dose Effect is out very soon and focuses on how we can optimize dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins through practical, everyday changes. TJ's research highlights the impact of social media, nature, and technology on mental health, and through his work, he empowers individuals to take control of their minds and lead healthier, more balanced lives. If you don't already follow TJ across social media, you're going to want to follow him right now and straight after this conversation. Please welcome to On Purpose Tjpower. TJ is great to have you.

He's a neuroscientist and author dedicated to understanding how modern lifestyle habits shape brain chemistry and emotional well being in the digital age. His upcoming book, The Dose Effect is out very soon and focuses on how we can optimize dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins through practical, everyday changes. TJ's research highlights the impact of social media, nature, and technology on mental health, and through his work, he empowers individuals to take control of their minds and lead healthier, more balanced lives. If you don't already follow TJ across social media, you're going to want to follow him right now and straight after this conversation. Please welcome to On Purpose Tjpower. TJ is great to have you.

Here, BADJ, thanks for having me.

Here, BADJ, thanks for having me.

This is surreal for me, and I'll explain why to the audience. Because eleven years ago I met your dad. Yeah, and Thomas Power became a mentor of mine. When I just left the monastery, I had started working at Accentia. Your dad had been brought in as an external consultant to help the company with different aspects of its digital strategy. You we became good friends. He became a mentor, he became a coach, and I'd always say to him, how can I repay you? What can I do for you? Because he did so much for me, helped me build my mindset when it came to work and life and business there's so much influence that your dad's had on me in a very deep way. And he'd always say to me, I'll coach you, and one day you'll coach my kids. And now I feel bad because I can't take any credit for your career success, and so I actually didn't live up to my end of the bargain. He was absolutely wonderful to me and watching you rise. Honestly, and by the way, I just want to put it out they can't take any credit for anything you've done. The incredible rise that you've had and the content you're making is so powerful. It's having such an impact. And I'm having you on the show because I'm a fan and knowing your dad's a bonus, but I think the work that you're doing is phenomenal. So congrats, Bud, and I'm so excited to have you here after having so many dinners and lunches over the years and watching you grow. But the work's so impactful. Thanks for turning up.

This is surreal for me, and I'll explain why to the audience. Because eleven years ago I met your dad. Yeah, and Thomas Power became a mentor of mine. When I just left the monastery, I had started working at Accentia. Your dad had been brought in as an external consultant to help the company with different aspects of its digital strategy. You we became good friends. He became a mentor, he became a coach, and I'd always say to him, how can I repay you? What can I do for you? Because he did so much for me, helped me build my mindset when it came to work and life and business there's so much influence that your dad's had on me in a very deep way. And he'd always say to me, I'll coach you, and one day you'll coach my kids. And now I feel bad because I can't take any credit for your career success, and so I actually didn't live up to my end of the bargain. He was absolutely wonderful to me and watching you rise. Honestly, and by the way, I just want to put it out they can't take any credit for anything you've done. The incredible rise that you've had and the content you're making is so powerful. It's having such an impact. And I'm having you on the show because I'm a fan and knowing your dad's a bonus, but I think the work that you're doing is phenomenal. So congrats, Bud, and I'm so excited to have you here after having so many dinners and lunches over the years and watching you grow. But the work's so impactful. Thanks for turning up.

Thanks for having me man.

Thanks for having me man.

You've inspired me so much over this last decade when I became fascinated by this world of mental health and helping people thrive. You're like that person that I turn to on the internet. So it's a magical moment for me to be here.

You've inspired me so much over this last decade when I became fascinated by this world of mental health and helping people thrive. You're like that person that I turn to on the internet. So it's a magical moment for me to be here.

Now, Oh thanks man, But yeah, let's dive into the work because there's so many exciting things to discuss. The first thing I want to ask you is you've got this phrase dose, and dose means so much more than what we think the word means, and it's based on this idea of dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and doorphins. I think we know very little about these chemicals. We kind of hear these as buzzwords and trend words, and I think what you've done is really demystified them and unpack them for us in a really simple way. Can you walk us through what each of these do for us and how we interact with them on a daily basis one hundred percent.

Now, Oh thanks man, But yeah, let's dive into the work because there's so many exciting things to discuss. The first thing I want to ask you is you've got this phrase dose, and dose means so much more than what we think the word means, and it's based on this idea of dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and doorphins. I think we know very little about these chemicals. We kind of hear these as buzzwords and trend words, and I think what you've done is really demystified them and unpack them for us in a really simple way. Can you walk us through what each of these do for us and how we interact with them on a daily basis one hundred percent.

I think with these chemicals, you see them talked about a lot on the internet now, and you see them all called kind of feel good and happy hormones, which there is truth in that. But the fascinating thing about really understanding dose is each of these chemicals have a very specific function, and when you begin to understand the symptoms of being low or high in them, you then begin to understand your brain and body much better and you start responding to the different challenges that the modern world brings us in a much better way. If you were to look at dopamine, primary function of dopamine would be motivation, and it also has a secondary function of our attention span. If you find yourself in a situation where you feel like low and deflated and flat and you can't get yourself to take action and do things, it's a very clear sign that dopamine is low and you need something to boost dopamine. You have oxytocin, the connection and the love hormone. If you felt lonely and a little bit unconfident and disconnected, we'd be guided towards oxytocin. Serotonin has a massive impact on our mood and energy, so if you're tired or a bit sad, serotonin would be beautiful. And then endorphins have this incredible function of destressing our brain. In our modern world, the cord sole hormone has become the big stress hormone, which is really accurate dress hormone, but in dolphins, as we'll go on to explore, also play a vital role in calming our brain when it's experienced extreme stress.

I think with these chemicals, you see them talked about a lot on the internet now, and you see them all called kind of feel good and happy hormones, which there is truth in that. But the fascinating thing about really understanding dose is each of these chemicals have a very specific function, and when you begin to understand the symptoms of being low or high in them, you then begin to understand your brain and body much better and you start responding to the different challenges that the modern world brings us in a much better way. If you were to look at dopamine, primary function of dopamine would be motivation, and it also has a secondary function of our attention span. If you find yourself in a situation where you feel like low and deflated and flat and you can't get yourself to take action and do things, it's a very clear sign that dopamine is low and you need something to boost dopamine. You have oxytocin, the connection and the love hormone. If you felt lonely and a little bit unconfident and disconnected, we'd be guided towards oxytocin. Serotonin has a massive impact on our mood and energy, so if you're tired or a bit sad, serotonin would be beautiful. And then endorphins have this incredible function of destressing our brain. In our modern world, the cord sole hormone has become the big stress hormone, which is really accurate dress hormone, but in dolphins, as we'll go on to explore, also play a vital role in calming our brain when it's experienced extreme stress.

It's fascinating to me because I don't think we understand how our daily habits affect these chemicals. So walk us through what's actually happening in our brain when we're doom scrolling on social media.

It's fascinating to me because I don't think we understand how our daily habits affect these chemicals. So walk us through what's actually happening in our brain when we're doom scrolling on social media.

Effectively, this all comes down to this concept called phasic and tonic dopamine release. This psychologist called Drea really popularized this back in twenty and eleven. And what you basically see is when we interact with social media, you get a rapid rise in dopamine, which is why when you open the social media app you immediately feel extremely good. Just to put that into context, the whole of dose is built upon something called the evolutionary mismatch hypothesis. This was created by Gluckman, and it's basically this idea that our brain spent three hundred thousand years evolving out in nature, developing these chemicals to help us survive and thrive in that kind of environment, hunting and making fire and building shelter and looking after one another. And with dopamine specifically, the only way we were capable of accessing it was through hard, challenging activities. We had to effectively earn the increase in dopamine, and we might have experienced that like once or twice a day, like the fire finally lit or we successfully caught some food or whatever it may be. In the modern world, this social media example, you experienced that same level of dopamine increase, but you experience it instantaneously within a few seconds because it rises so fast. It then causes this really significant crash in dope me because your brain tries to get back to balance. And so many of us struggle today with this idea of just taking action on what we want to do. Like we're sitting there and we think, yeah, I need to do that bit of work, or yeah I need to go and cook myself a healthy meal, or yeah I need to go and do some exercise, but we can't be bothered and we just like procrastinate it. And that's heavily connected to this overstimulation through social media.

Effectively, this all comes down to this concept called phasic and tonic dopamine release. This psychologist called Drea really popularized this back in twenty and eleven. And what you basically see is when we interact with social media, you get a rapid rise in dopamine, which is why when you open the social media app you immediately feel extremely good. Just to put that into context, the whole of dose is built upon something called the evolutionary mismatch hypothesis. This was created by Gluckman, and it's basically this idea that our brain spent three hundred thousand years evolving out in nature, developing these chemicals to help us survive and thrive in that kind of environment, hunting and making fire and building shelter and looking after one another. And with dopamine specifically, the only way we were capable of accessing it was through hard, challenging activities. We had to effectively earn the increase in dopamine, and we might have experienced that like once or twice a day, like the fire finally lit or we successfully caught some food or whatever it may be. In the modern world, this social media example, you experienced that same level of dopamine increase, but you experience it instantaneously within a few seconds because it rises so fast. It then causes this really significant crash in dope me because your brain tries to get back to balance. And so many of us struggle today with this idea of just taking action on what we want to do. Like we're sitting there and we think, yeah, I need to do that bit of work, or yeah I need to go and cook myself a healthy meal, or yeah I need to go and do some exercise, but we can't be bothered and we just like procrastinate it. And that's heavily connected to this overstimulation through social media.

It's fascinating to hear that we used to have to earn dopamine. Yeah, how quickly does it diminish? And what does that crash look like.

It's fascinating to hear that we used to have to earn dopamine. Yeah, how quickly does it diminish? And what does that crash look like.

It would be experienced within our behavior.

It would be experienced within our behavior.

There's actually this big topic you get see, you get seen talked about on TikTok called paralysis, and they also have this phrase called rotting on TikTok where people literally can't move, they can't get themselves to move don't mean right at the core of its function, even impacts our motivation to physically move our body. And if you're in that state where you just can't get yourself to do anything, and loads of us experience this like it's a Saturday morning. We think, oh, I don't have work today, so I'm going to scroll my phone way more and we sit there and we get into this doom scrolling cycle of feeling that elevation in dopamin, this rapid increase of dopamine, and then we eventually find ourselves saying to our mind, like our instinctive mind comes on and says put the phone down, like go do something else, and then you don't really want to.

There's actually this big topic you get see, you get seen talked about on TikTok called paralysis, and they also have this phrase called rotting on TikTok where people literally can't move, they can't get themselves to move don't mean right at the core of its function, even impacts our motivation to physically move our body. And if you're in that state where you just can't get yourself to do anything, and loads of us experience this like it's a Saturday morning. We think, oh, I don't have work today, so I'm going to scroll my phone way more and we sit there and we get into this doom scrolling cycle of feeling that elevation in dopamin, this rapid increase of dopamine, and then we eventually find ourselves saying to our mind, like our instinctive mind comes on and says put the phone down, like go do something else, and then you don't really want to.

And then even if you do.

And then even if you do.

Put it down, you just can't get yourself to do anything. So it's that symptom of paralysis, not being able to get going.

Put it down, you just can't get yourself to do anything. So it's that symptom of paralysis, not being able to get going.

Yeah, so what do we do? I believe it all.

Yeah, so what do we do? I believe it all.

Starts with how the beginning of your day begins. And it's really important to understand this. Throughout sleep, there's regenerative processes taking place that are creating elevations in dopamine as part of that restoration. And you can imagine this. All of our work is built upon this hunter gather idea of a human being far before our world, in this modern world we live in, had to wake up and do hard things. It was so important to our survival. When we woke up, we'd have a nice amount of dopamine and we'd immediately take action and do challenging stuff. Nowadays, the opposite of that occurs. We wake up, we've got this abundance of dopamine sitting there, and then it's straight to the phone. And I understand, like, this is hard to break. My whole work in this space comes from my own addictions to these things. Like I got a iPhone when I was like eleven years old, So to me, my whole life has been sitting on an iPhone basically, and I spent ten to fifteen years waking up going straight into the phone. And fundamentally, if you develop the discipline to have a thirty minute window before you go into the phone, and we can talk through what the steps in there would include to resist it, that's going to then set that discipline within your life to I have the capacity to resist it, and then once you start training this discipline in your capacity to resist it in other times in your day will grow as well.

Starts with how the beginning of your day begins. And it's really important to understand this. Throughout sleep, there's regenerative processes taking place that are creating elevations in dopamine as part of that restoration. And you can imagine this. All of our work is built upon this hunter gather idea of a human being far before our world, in this modern world we live in, had to wake up and do hard things. It was so important to our survival. When we woke up, we'd have a nice amount of dopamine and we'd immediately take action and do challenging stuff. Nowadays, the opposite of that occurs. We wake up, we've got this abundance of dopamine sitting there, and then it's straight to the phone. And I understand, like, this is hard to break. My whole work in this space comes from my own addictions to these things. Like I got a iPhone when I was like eleven years old, So to me, my whole life has been sitting on an iPhone basically, and I spent ten to fifteen years waking up going straight into the phone. And fundamentally, if you develop the discipline to have a thirty minute window before you go into the phone, and we can talk through what the steps in there would include to resist it, that's going to then set that discipline within your life to I have the capacity to resist it, and then once you start training this discipline in your capacity to resist it in other times in your day will grow as well.

The fact that you've been using a phone since you're eleven years old kind of puts into perspective because I got my first phone when I was fourteen, but it was one of those phones where you still had to like key in a ring tone.

The fact that you've been using a phone since you're eleven years old kind of puts into perspective because I got my first phone when I was fourteen, but it was one of those phones where you still had to like key in a ring tone.

Yeah, you had to earn the do.

Yeah, you had to earn the do.

I used to sit there for like thirty minutes keying in a ring tone so that I could have my favorite song be my ringtone.

I used to sit there for like thirty minutes keying in a ring tone so that I could have my favorite song be my ringtone.

For sure, and I had like a few songs on that. You didn't have loads of novelty, loads of different staff.

For sure, and I had like a few songs on that. You didn't have loads of novelty, loads of different staff.

Yeah, that's so fascinating, this idea of earning something. And I feel like when you wake up in the morning, it's almost like we want life to be easier and simpler, and everything in our lives has become so instant, whether it's food, coffee, anything, like right, we're looking for something that's quick. How do we train ourselves to be like, oh, I should earn something, Like how do you even make that mindset shift of actually earning something's good versus having it be ready made for me.

Yeah, that's so fascinating, this idea of earning something. And I feel like when you wake up in the morning, it's almost like we want life to be easier and simpler, and everything in our lives has become so instant, whether it's food, coffee, anything, like right, we're looking for something that's quick. How do we train ourselves to be like, oh, I should earn something, Like how do you even make that mindset shift of actually earning something's good versus having it be ready made for me.

I think right at the core of that, it comes down to, are you wanting a life where you're in the pursuit of pleasure and just like momentarily feeling good or do you want like a really happy, fulfilling experience a life. And I struggled a lot with various addictions. I struggled a lot with alcoholism, and I have discussed social media, pornography, all these very dopemina activities. And ultimately, if you really spend some time with your mind, I think you have to spend prolonged period of times in nature chatting to yourself about your lifestyle. And if you start really considering, like, is this current lifestyle I have where I work a bit and then I get my pleasure from my phone, and then I do another activity and then I get my pleasure from my phone. Is that ultimately creating a life that you're really loving or is it just creating momentary experiences of pleasure? And I think when you begin having those conversations with yourself and observing more closely how you feel. And this is why I really like people to understand the symptoms of whether you're lower high in these chemicals, because then people start thinking like, Okay, this is why I'm feeling that way, and then they tie it to the phone and then they're like, okay, I need to start phone fasting, which is what we call it, these prolonged breaks from it. So I think it's that mindset shift around pleasure versus happiness.

I think right at the core of that, it comes down to, are you wanting a life where you're in the pursuit of pleasure and just like momentarily feeling good or do you want like a really happy, fulfilling experience a life. And I struggled a lot with various addictions. I struggled a lot with alcoholism, and I have discussed social media, pornography, all these very dopemina activities. And ultimately, if you really spend some time with your mind, I think you have to spend prolonged period of times in nature chatting to yourself about your lifestyle. And if you start really considering, like, is this current lifestyle I have where I work a bit and then I get my pleasure from my phone, and then I do another activity and then I get my pleasure from my phone. Is that ultimately creating a life that you're really loving or is it just creating momentary experiences of pleasure? And I think when you begin having those conversations with yourself and observing more closely how you feel. And this is why I really like people to understand the symptoms of whether you're lower high in these chemicals, because then people start thinking like, Okay, this is why I'm feeling that way, and then they tie it to the phone and then they're like, okay, I need to start phone fasting, which is what we call it, these prolonged breaks from it. So I think it's that mindset shift around pleasure versus happiness.

What's the longest you've ever done a phone for us?

What's the longest you've ever done a phone for us?

I did three years ago.

I did three years ago.

I did seven days no phone whatsoever, no phone seven days. I actually wouldn't recommend that as a solution. It's really interesting because I've been really niching into this world of the phone connect. I think fundamentally, when you look at mental health, there has been a lot of quick dopaminergic activities for the last hundred years, be that alcohol or cigarettes or sugary food or whatever it may be. But mental health has shifted rapidly since the iPhone became a thing. And then if you look at since COVID, when we start really scrolling the short videos, mental health has declined even further. And I think the big reason that's the case is because we can more frequently engage with dopamin via the phone than the dopamine we used to get from those other sources. You might eat sugar three times a day, you might drink once a day, you might watch pornography once a day social media. Like with the DO Lab where we do our research, we see people opening their phone about one hundred and forty to one hundred and fifty times a day. So it's that frequency of increase which is challenging, which brings us to that phone fasting idea. Now, I tried seven days off. I tried three days off. The difficulty is because we're operating in such a rapid society with the amount of information coming at us on our email and what's happened with our jobs. I think big breaks from it can actually be very stressful when you turn the phone back on. And what we've seen in our research is if people commit to short, frequent breaks where they know the morning is a frequent break, they'll always do. They have a sixty minute phone fast in the evening, they have a prolonged one in the middle of the day. If they have these frequent breaks rather than long breaks, that actually seems to be more effective. Definitely for me as well.

I did seven days no phone whatsoever, no phone seven days. I actually wouldn't recommend that as a solution. It's really interesting because I've been really niching into this world of the phone connect. I think fundamentally, when you look at mental health, there has been a lot of quick dopaminergic activities for the last hundred years, be that alcohol or cigarettes or sugary food or whatever it may be. But mental health has shifted rapidly since the iPhone became a thing. And then if you look at since COVID, when we start really scrolling the short videos, mental health has declined even further. And I think the big reason that's the case is because we can more frequently engage with dopamin via the phone than the dopamine we used to get from those other sources. You might eat sugar three times a day, you might drink once a day, you might watch pornography once a day social media. Like with the DO Lab where we do our research, we see people opening their phone about one hundred and forty to one hundred and fifty times a day. So it's that frequency of increase which is challenging, which brings us to that phone fasting idea. Now, I tried seven days off. I tried three days off. The difficulty is because we're operating in such a rapid society with the amount of information coming at us on our email and what's happened with our jobs. I think big breaks from it can actually be very stressful when you turn the phone back on. And what we've seen in our research is if people commit to short, frequent breaks where they know the morning is a frequent break, they'll always do. They have a sixty minute phone fast in the evening, they have a prolonged one in the middle of the day. If they have these frequent breaks rather than long breaks, that actually seems to be more effective. Definitely for me as well.

I could agree with you more. I've done those phone fast as well. For a while, and there are times in my year where I think that that can be important. But overall, I fully agree with you that I think if you're going oscling between these extremes, you just keep kind of pinging back and forth, and so you go from being really addicted to doing the phone fast and going back to being really addicted, and that can get really exhausting and really really tiring. And so what has been your best set of tips that you've found for someone who doesn't want to look at their phone first thing in the morning or to not turn to that because you said the morning is so important. What do we do? Because I feel like that's the first thing. You know, eighty percent of us to look at our phones first thing in the morning lasting at night. We look at it before we look at our partners and our kids after we look at them at night. Our phone gets more FaceTime than the people we love, Like that is our life. What do we do?

I could agree with you more. I've done those phone fast as well. For a while, and there are times in my year where I think that that can be important. But overall, I fully agree with you that I think if you're going oscling between these extremes, you just keep kind of pinging back and forth, and so you go from being really addicted to doing the phone fast and going back to being really addicted, and that can get really exhausting and really really tiring. And so what has been your best set of tips that you've found for someone who doesn't want to look at their phone first thing in the morning or to not turn to that because you said the morning is so important. What do we do? Because I feel like that's the first thing. You know, eighty percent of us to look at our phones first thing in the morning lasting at night. We look at it before we look at our partners and our kids after we look at them at night. Our phone gets more FaceTime than the people we love, Like that is our life. What do we do?

We have these four underlying laws for each of the chemicals dopmine, oxitose, and serotonin, and dolphins. The underlying law from all of the research we looked into, Like in this book, there's like two hundred and fifty studies we explored around these topics. Fundamentally, the law that we found to be most appropriate with dopamine is take action as soon as you wake every day, and that fundamentally means you wake, you don't snooze your alarm. As painful as it is, but simply beating that challenge of oh I could just lie in bed and stay in this comfort and doing something that's difficult is beginning that dope mean increase. We then get people to if they really struggle with snoozing, to literally when the alarm goes off, just sit at the side of the bed and just get themselves out of the prone position effectively and sit there. We then get them to go straight to the bathroom if you can. You then start brushing your teeth. Brushing your teeth is an annoying slow activity. Again, you're earning dopemine. Like if you do it for twenty seconds, you always know that, oh, I feel a bit guilt for the fact I just did twenty seconds. You do the two minutes you think, yes, task and play. So you go to the bathroom and brush your teeth, You splash cold water on your face, and you come back and you make your bed. There's this brilliant psychologist called Walton that looked at the relationship between dopamine and effort, and it's very clear that if you utilize effort right at the beginning of your day, your dop means starting on that nice slow curve, motivation then builds and then your capacity to further resist the phone and maybe get outside for a walk or do some exercise, or get to your desk or make your kids breakfast. It's going to come from an easier place than the wake up, spike, dove, mean and crash and then try and get going from there.

We have these four underlying laws for each of the chemicals dopmine, oxitose, and serotonin, and dolphins. The underlying law from all of the research we looked into, Like in this book, there's like two hundred and fifty studies we explored around these topics. Fundamentally, the law that we found to be most appropriate with dopamine is take action as soon as you wake every day, and that fundamentally means you wake, you don't snooze your alarm. As painful as it is, but simply beating that challenge of oh I could just lie in bed and stay in this comfort and doing something that's difficult is beginning that dope mean increase. We then get people to if they really struggle with snoozing, to literally when the alarm goes off, just sit at the side of the bed and just get themselves out of the prone position effectively and sit there. We then get them to go straight to the bathroom if you can. You then start brushing your teeth. Brushing your teeth is an annoying slow activity. Again, you're earning dopemine. Like if you do it for twenty seconds, you always know that, oh, I feel a bit guilt for the fact I just did twenty seconds. You do the two minutes you think, yes, task and play. So you go to the bathroom and brush your teeth, You splash cold water on your face, and you come back and you make your bed. There's this brilliant psychologist called Walton that looked at the relationship between dopamine and effort, and it's very clear that if you utilize effort right at the beginning of your day, your dop means starting on that nice slow curve, motivation then builds and then your capacity to further resist the phone and maybe get outside for a walk or do some exercise, or get to your desk or make your kids breakfast. It's going to come from an easier place than the wake up, spike, dove, mean and crash and then try and get going from there.

Yeah, that's great advice. So I think one thing that helped me out for a while was I have a few instrumentals or music that I like, and I'll have that on my phone. So I'll wake up and I'll put this song on because I know I have the urge to pick up my phone and I'll press plate and then the phone's with me while I'm brushing my teeth. But I'm not now scrolling because I'm now listening to something. And I know people do it with podcasts, people do it with audio meditation, whatever it may be. For me, it's it's music. That reminds me of being back in the monastery. And so I'll play that and it's just like the soundtrack to My Morning Nice And it may have birds chirpping, it may have nature sounds, it may have a bit of water like it's these and for me, that allows me to feel like there's something distracted. Is that bad? Is that good? Like? What's your take on that? Be honest with me.

Yeah, that's great advice. So I think one thing that helped me out for a while was I have a few instrumentals or music that I like, and I'll have that on my phone. So I'll wake up and I'll put this song on because I know I have the urge to pick up my phone and I'll press plate and then the phone's with me while I'm brushing my teeth. But I'm not now scrolling because I'm now listening to something. And I know people do it with podcasts, people do it with audio meditation, whatever it may be. For me, it's it's music. That reminds me of being back in the monastery. And so I'll play that and it's just like the soundtrack to My Morning Nice And it may have birds chirpping, it may have nature sounds, it may have a bit of water like it's these and for me, that allows me to feel like there's something distracted. Is that bad? Is that good? Like? What's your take on that? Be honest with me.

It's interesting and there is so much nuance with how the beginning of the day starts, and we get these questions all the time in our training and things like that. Fundamentally, the appslue gold standard would be you don't see a phone for thirty years.

It's interesting and there is so much nuance with how the beginning of the day starts, and we get these questions all the time in our training and things like that. Fundamentally, the appslue gold standard would be you don't see a phone for thirty years.

Okay.

Okay.

However, there are scenarios where definitely a phone is not disadvantageous to these chemicals. So if you think about listening to music as long as you're not rapidly tapping through it and just listening to a song, that's okay. If you woke up and it's part of your routines, go straight into a meditation utilizing a meditation app.

However, there are scenarios where definitely a phone is not disadvantageous to these chemicals. So if you think about listening to music as long as you're not rapidly tapping through it and just listening to a song, that's okay. If you woke up and it's part of your routines, go straight into a meditation utilizing a meditation app.

Again, that's a good use of your time.

Again, that's a good use of your time.

I know many people like, because of the brainwave state, to go straight into meditation when they wake.

I know many people like, because of the brainwave state, to go straight into meditation when they wake.

This is the where it gets interesting.

This is the where it gets interesting.

You really want to make sure that the phone doesn't charge directly by your head.

You really want to make sure that the phone doesn't charge directly by your head.

That's like a gold standard rule.

That's like a gold standard rule.

It can't be charging there because our willpower goes up and down depending actually on our dopmein levels and different areas of our brain being activated. Willpower in the morning is going to be slightly lower if the phone is there. It's irresistible. I always have this like when I come away, for example, we're here at the moment, I don't have my alarm, so then my phone has to become my alarm.

It can't be charging there because our willpower goes up and down depending actually on our dopmein levels and different areas of our brain being activated. Willpower in the morning is going to be slightly lower if the phone is there. It's irresistible. I always have this like when I come away, for example, we're here at the moment, I don't have my alarm, so then my phone has to become my alarm.

And suddenly it's like where is the phone going to be?

And suddenly it's like where is the phone going to be?

And I have to make sure that it charges the other side of the room so it still wakes me. But I don't have that moment. I might just quickly check with that in mind. When you do check, if there's a whole stream of notifications, again, it's going to create this anticipatory rise in dopemin. Then you're going in. You're not going to be able to resist it. So you need to really be on airplane mode when you're going to sleep, so you wake up and there's nothing there. You then have these really nuanced components of if you want to go into meditation app, like I have these things that I want to do, I would open the phone, click the app, then on aeroplane it so you haven't seen a notification, do your meditation, come back out, go away from the phone. But fundamentally, we've trained like fifty people in dose. It is so clear that if people have thirty minutes when they wait without going on their phone, it creates a radical shift in their experience of life.

And I have to make sure that it charges the other side of the room so it still wakes me. But I don't have that moment. I might just quickly check with that in mind. When you do check, if there's a whole stream of notifications, again, it's going to create this anticipatory rise in dopemin. Then you're going in. You're not going to be able to resist it. So you need to really be on airplane mode when you're going to sleep, so you wake up and there's nothing there. You then have these really nuanced components of if you want to go into meditation app, like I have these things that I want to do, I would open the phone, click the app, then on aeroplane it so you haven't seen a notification, do your meditation, come back out, go away from the phone. But fundamentally, we've trained like fifty people in dose. It is so clear that if people have thirty minutes when they wait without going on their phone, it creates a radical shift in their experience of life.

Yeah. I remember when I first trained myself, I had to have to lock my phone in my car outside because it was just so addictive. And I found, especially in moments of high anxiety and high tension, like whether there's something in the news cycle, whether there's you know, just everything that we get sucked into. I found that having my phone out of the room is like a must, because I found like how hard it is to get good quality sleep when your phone's right there and you're either on it at night or you're on it first thing in the morning, and you're getting sucked into the latest updates, the latest news, whatever it is, and the anxiety and stress that you're taking on is colossal for sure.

Yeah. I remember when I first trained myself, I had to have to lock my phone in my car outside because it was just so addictive. And I found, especially in moments of high anxiety and high tension, like whether there's something in the news cycle, whether there's you know, just everything that we get sucked into. I found that having my phone out of the room is like a must, because I found like how hard it is to get good quality sleep when your phone's right there and you're either on it at night or you're on it first thing in the morning, and you're getting sucked into the latest updates, the latest news, whatever it is, and the anxiety and stress that you're taking on is colossal for sure.

And the nighttime component is really key as well to consider, like it's almost quite pleasurable just lying bed and just like doom scroll, your brain sleep. We train a lot of schools and a lot of kids literally will just go sleep in TikTok.

And the nighttime component is really key as well to consider, like it's almost quite pleasurable just lying bed and just like doom scroll, your brain sleep. We train a lot of schools and a lot of kids literally will just go sleep in TikTok.

That's just how their brains sleep.

That's just how their brains sleep.

And we look at all their screen times and some of them have like sixteen seventeen hours a day of screen time, but we look into that and they're about nine to ten hours in the daytime. But it's larger that TikTok just stays open throughout the night because if they wake, they then just click next videos, so sound continues because a lot of I struggle with like the quiet.

And we look at all their screen times and some of them have like sixteen seventeen hours a day of screen time, but we look into that and they're about nine to ten hours in the daytime. But it's larger that TikTok just stays open throughout the night because if they wake, they then just click next videos, so sound continues because a lot of I struggle with like the quiet.

Effectively, if you.

Effectively, if you.

Need some kind of stimulation at night time, of course, like reading would be incredible if that's an option for you and you could achieve doing reading, that would be a perfect act. But if you were going to think, okay, I need some kind of stimulation, you want to think, how can I do something that's a little bit of a slower release dopmine activity that's still on technology. So for me, there will be evenings where I think I really want to watch a podcast. For example, if you were to sit and you were to put like a tablet across your bed and you would sit and watch a podcast that's nowhere nearest stimulating as like an Instagram reels feed because the novelty is different. Like you sit and you watch a podcast the first like five to ten minutes, you're kind of getting into it and you're getting hold of the storyline, and your dopemin is gradually increasing. You open social media, it's like rapid, Okay, now I'm in and I'm engaged. That difference is really important to understand because if we're just burning our dope mein before we go to sleep, it's highly likely we're going to wake up in this more deflated, low willpower type state. If you can have a slower dopamine technological activity at night.

Need some kind of stimulation at night time, of course, like reading would be incredible if that's an option for you and you could achieve doing reading, that would be a perfect act. But if you were going to think, okay, I need some kind of stimulation, you want to think, how can I do something that's a little bit of a slower release dopmine activity that's still on technology. So for me, there will be evenings where I think I really want to watch a podcast. For example, if you were to sit and you were to put like a tablet across your bed and you would sit and watch a podcast that's nowhere nearest stimulating as like an Instagram reels feed because the novelty is different. Like you sit and you watch a podcast the first like five to ten minutes, you're kind of getting into it and you're getting hold of the storyline, and your dopemin is gradually increasing. You open social media, it's like rapid, Okay, now I'm in and I'm engaged. That difference is really important to understand because if we're just burning our dope mein before we go to sleep, it's highly likely we're going to wake up in this more deflated, low willpower type state. If you can have a slower dopamine technological activity at night.

It's going to be better for those mornings.

It's going to be better for those mornings.

Yeah, what's actually happening though? So I love that idea of slow release versus instant release, But what's actually happening in a fast release and why does that lead to lower willpower and lower motivation.

Yeah, what's actually happening though? So I love that idea of slow release versus instant release, But what's actually happening in a fast release and why does that lead to lower willpower and lower motivation.

It's really important to just understand that the brain chemical evolved simply to be earned over a long period of time. Like if you actually imagine the challenging activity of being outdoors. You have a family and you have to spend ten hours in the cold building a shelter. Your brain wasn't designed to just give you a really quick dopain he because then you think, oh nice, I feel good now I'm done, far before the task was complete. So it evolved to slowly increase dope. Meine operates with these little vesicles in your brain. You can imagine them as little bubbles that go across your synapses. Those bubbles are desired to slowly transfer across the signapses as more more effort is engaged. As soon as you open the social media immediately a ton of those vesticles are rapidly going across the sign apps. And that's why your brain is like, wow, this feels really good. Your brain starts thinking like, I'm not going to be able to cope with this. This is unusual for my brain to be increasing at this level. And then you have the brain seeking to try and get yourself back into balance. Our brain always seeks homeostasis, as does our body. And if you think about a medical show you may have watched on TV before, when you see someone having an issue with their heart, you see this rapid increase then rapid decline, rapid increase, rapid decline, And that's because the heart is increasing because of some kind of physiological difficulty, but it keeps trying to slow it down because it's trying to keep it at a balance level. The exact same thing happens with the dopamine, because it experiences a rapid increase and then goes, oh my god, try and slow the productions, Try and slow the production. It slows the production. Then as we have less vesicles happening because of the social media, we're then like, oh, can't Boss do anything? We procrastinate against this low will power experience.

It's really important to just understand that the brain chemical evolved simply to be earned over a long period of time. Like if you actually imagine the challenging activity of being outdoors. You have a family and you have to spend ten hours in the cold building a shelter. Your brain wasn't designed to just give you a really quick dopain he because then you think, oh nice, I feel good now I'm done, far before the task was complete. So it evolved to slowly increase dope. Meine operates with these little vesicles in your brain. You can imagine them as little bubbles that go across your synapses. Those bubbles are desired to slowly transfer across the signapses as more more effort is engaged. As soon as you open the social media immediately a ton of those vesticles are rapidly going across the sign apps. And that's why your brain is like, wow, this feels really good. Your brain starts thinking like, I'm not going to be able to cope with this. This is unusual for my brain to be increasing at this level. And then you have the brain seeking to try and get yourself back into balance. Our brain always seeks homeostasis, as does our body. And if you think about a medical show you may have watched on TV before, when you see someone having an issue with their heart, you see this rapid increase then rapid decline, rapid increase, rapid decline, And that's because the heart is increasing because of some kind of physiological difficulty, but it keeps trying to slow it down because it's trying to keep it at a balance level. The exact same thing happens with the dopamine, because it experiences a rapid increase and then goes, oh my god, try and slow the productions, Try and slow the production. It slows the production. Then as we have less vesicles happening because of the social media, we're then like, oh, can't Boss do anything? We procrastinate against this low will power experience.

Well, thanks for explaining that. I was like, I've never heard that before. So it's super useful to get what's going on behind the scenes, because I think naturally, when we're doing it, we don't see any of that you were mentioning a few seconds ago, this idea, the difference between how we can sense whether we're high or low in each of these chemicals, is that right for sure? Could you walk us through some of the symptoms and you can either choose to start a dopamine or if you think we've talked about that, switchtoxotocin.

Well, thanks for explaining that. I was like, I've never heard that before. So it's super useful to get what's going on behind the scenes, because I think naturally, when we're doing it, we don't see any of that you were mentioning a few seconds ago, this idea, the difference between how we can sense whether we're high or low in each of these chemicals, is that right for sure? Could you walk us through some of the symptoms and you can either choose to start a dopamine or if you think we've talked about that, switchtoxotocin.

Yeah, so just to remind the dopmin If you're procrastinating, you're lower motivation, you can't focus, is a clear sign that you need some kind of challenging activity. I'm very aware that in that state, that's the worst thing you want to do. You're like, I don't want to do anything difficult right now. This is why, for example, cold showers have become so popular in our modern world because they're absolute hell, pure pain, very challenging, and they will rebuild the dopamine. So, dop mean, if you're in that low motivation state, that's when you need a challenging activity.

Yeah, so just to remind the dopmin If you're procrastinating, you're lower motivation, you can't focus, is a clear sign that you need some kind of challenging activity. I'm very aware that in that state, that's the worst thing you want to do. You're like, I don't want to do anything difficult right now. This is why, for example, cold showers have become so popular in our modern world because they're absolute hell, pure pain, very challenging, and they will rebuild the dopamine. So, dop mean, if you're in that low motivation state, that's when you need a challenging activity.

Let me ask you that question. Actually, so what are the other So how do we build dopamine in a healthy way?

Let me ask you that question. Actually, so what are the other So how do we build dopamine in a healthy way?

First one would be the phone fast when you wake up. Second one would be any kind of discipline in your home environment. That's not like a super sexy way to build it, but it's very clear.

First one would be the phone fast when you wake up. Second one would be any kind of discipline in your home environment. That's not like a super sexy way to build it, but it's very clear.

That it has a positive effect.

That it has a positive effect.

If I give you the example of having to change and wash our bedding, we all hate that activity. It's like you wake up one day and you think, wow, that bed looks like it needs washing. A week later, you're like, yeah, I definitely need now wash. You take all the sheets of jam it in the washing machine, then you have to wait for it to dry, and that's so boring, and then you have to go the proce of actually butting it, buttoning it all back up. Eventually that evening, though, you find yourself getting into your freshly washed bed and it's literally one of the most rewarding human experiences when the sheet is tight and it's all really nice as you get in. You never get into your bed and think, I feel really annoyed that I bothered to wash my bedding today. It's like the opposite experience, whereas you do sometimes feel annoyed at yourself for overscrolling. And this is our brain having very sophisticated guidance mechanisms. Don't mean it's here just to reward anything that's advantageous. So you have the phone fast any kind of discipline in your home environment. And I do want to stress that one like we all have to do this annoying to empty dish washes, take out bins, and if you start framing it in your head as something that's actually elevating your motivation and elevating your experis alive. It shifts, what those annoying tasks are for us all. We then have cold water immersion. There's been a big topic Andrew Human has been really popular on this. There's that amazing study that came out back in two thousand that show we have a two hundred and fifty percent increase in dope mein when we put ourselves into a significantly cold environment. So if you can do the cold, that's awesome. Our next one is this one called my Pursuit, and this is really really key to understand with dopamine. There's the chat from Cambridge University called Schultz who in nineteen ninety eight looked at the different times in which dopamine increases, and what you fundamentally see is that dopamine is actually at its highest point just before we achieve something, not actually when we achieve the goal itself. And this is really important to consider in our lives because if you go back to that hunter gatherer example, given the dopamine is the motivation and attention molecule, it's very useful. So you were hunting for an animal, just before you hunt it, you need the most dopamine. When you've actually got it, you don't necessarily need as much as just that moment period to really motivate you to push.

If I give you the example of having to change and wash our bedding, we all hate that activity. It's like you wake up one day and you think, wow, that bed looks like it needs washing. A week later, you're like, yeah, I definitely need now wash. You take all the sheets of jam it in the washing machine, then you have to wait for it to dry, and that's so boring, and then you have to go the proce of actually butting it, buttoning it all back up. Eventually that evening, though, you find yourself getting into your freshly washed bed and it's literally one of the most rewarding human experiences when the sheet is tight and it's all really nice as you get in. You never get into your bed and think, I feel really annoyed that I bothered to wash my bedding today. It's like the opposite experience, whereas you do sometimes feel annoyed at yourself for overscrolling. And this is our brain having very sophisticated guidance mechanisms. Don't mean it's here just to reward anything that's advantageous. So you have the phone fast any kind of discipline in your home environment. And I do want to stress that one like we all have to do this annoying to empty dish washes, take out bins, and if you start framing it in your head as something that's actually elevating your motivation and elevating your experis alive. It shifts, what those annoying tasks are for us all. We then have cold water immersion. There's been a big topic Andrew Human has been really popular on this. There's that amazing study that came out back in two thousand that show we have a two hundred and fifty percent increase in dope mein when we put ourselves into a significantly cold environment. So if you can do the cold, that's awesome. Our next one is this one called my Pursuit, and this is really really key to understand with dopamine. There's the chat from Cambridge University called Schultz who in nineteen ninety eight looked at the different times in which dopamine increases, and what you fundamentally see is that dopamine is actually at its highest point just before we achieve something, not actually when we achieve the goal itself. And this is really important to consider in our lives because if you go back to that hunter gatherer example, given the dopamine is the motivation and attention molecule, it's very useful. So you were hunting for an animal, just before you hunt it, you need the most dopamine. When you've actually got it, you don't necessarily need as much as just that moment period to really motivate you to push.

The final part.

The final part.

When we look at our life today, a lot of us can think that our happiest life is when we achieve the thing. But it's very clear from a research point of view that our happiest life is actually simply when we're in the pursuit of the goal itself. And we get people to go out for about thirty minutes into nature without their headphones. Were always promoting to be in nature without headphones and simply for a whole thirty minutes, ask themselves the question, what is my primary pursuit right now? Once they start considering what it is, maybe they have a creative pursuit of pursuit with their family, their work, their health. They ask themselves why is that? And they spend another ten minutes really trying to clarify why that's the case. Then they go into the process of how the hell am I going to get towards that goal? And a consistent daily pursuit, a consistent daily striving for something that's beyond your comfort zone is so incredible for this system.

When we look at our life today, a lot of us can think that our happiest life is when we achieve the thing. But it's very clear from a research point of view that our happiest life is actually simply when we're in the pursuit of the goal itself. And we get people to go out for about thirty minutes into nature without their headphones. Were always promoting to be in nature without headphones and simply for a whole thirty minutes, ask themselves the question, what is my primary pursuit right now? Once they start considering what it is, maybe they have a creative pursuit of pursuit with their family, their work, their health. They ask themselves why is that? And they spend another ten minutes really trying to clarify why that's the case. Then they go into the process of how the hell am I going to get towards that goal? And a consistent daily pursuit, a consistent daily striving for something that's beyond your comfort zone is so incredible for this system.

It's so interesting to me because I feel like when you're in that space. Like you said earlier, it's the last thing you want to do. But I've realized over time that things are good for me feel terrible before and feel amazing after. And that's the open yeah, And things that are unhealthy for me are bad for me feel great before and terrible afterwards. Right like what you just said about if you've got to clean your bed sheets and all of that, when you're doing it, you're like, this is the biggest waste of my time. After when you get in bed, it feels great, whereas leaving a dirty feels good and like being lazy and just be like, oh, I can't be bothered whatever. But then when you get in bed, you're like, oh, this is filthy, right. And so it's interesting how I've I've had to consciously focus on how I feel after something, like even now I've been I had surgery last year, and then so I got no two years ago and I had surgery, couldn't really lift weights for a while. I got back into lifting probably consistently only a couple months back. Nice, and so I've been working out, you know, five days a week for the last just over a month. It's been great, and I don't enjoy. Like, if you ask me to play sports, I can play sports any day. You ask me to play football, I'd love to play football. You tell me we go work out at the gym. I don't really love it, but I know it's important for me, especially with my age and what I'm trying to do with my body. And so I've had to convince myself of how I feel after a workout to get in the gym. And I know for a fact that I never regret going to the gym after it, but before I'm always tempted to text either my mate or my trainer and go, don't want to forget it. I'm just tired today, right, And so it's almost like what does it take to kind of let go of that immediate instant feeling that we all have of like press the snooze button, message my mate and cancel the hike, cancel on my trainer, don't turn up to that class, even though I already paid in advance. Like what do you do with that tiny little thought that pops in that kind of sets us all off on the wrong course? Do you relate to that? By the way, is that yeah? So much?

It's so interesting to me because I feel like when you're in that space. Like you said earlier, it's the last thing you want to do. But I've realized over time that things are good for me feel terrible before and feel amazing after. And that's the open yeah, And things that are unhealthy for me are bad for me feel great before and terrible afterwards. Right like what you just said about if you've got to clean your bed sheets and all of that, when you're doing it, you're like, this is the biggest waste of my time. After when you get in bed, it feels great, whereas leaving a dirty feels good and like being lazy and just be like, oh, I can't be bothered whatever. But then when you get in bed, you're like, oh, this is filthy, right. And so it's interesting how I've I've had to consciously focus on how I feel after something, like even now I've been I had surgery last year, and then so I got no two years ago and I had surgery, couldn't really lift weights for a while. I got back into lifting probably consistently only a couple months back. Nice, and so I've been working out, you know, five days a week for the last just over a month. It's been great, and I don't enjoy. Like, if you ask me to play sports, I can play sports any day. You ask me to play football, I'd love to play football. You tell me we go work out at the gym. I don't really love it, but I know it's important for me, especially with my age and what I'm trying to do with my body. And so I've had to convince myself of how I feel after a workout to get in the gym. And I know for a fact that I never regret going to the gym after it, but before I'm always tempted to text either my mate or my trainer and go, don't want to forget it. I'm just tired today, right, And so it's almost like what does it take to kind of let go of that immediate instant feeling that we all have of like press the snooze button, message my mate and cancel the hike, cancel on my trainer, don't turn up to that class, even though I already paid in advance. Like what do you do with that tiny little thought that pops in that kind of sets us all off on the wrong course? Do you relate to that? By the way, is that yeah? So much?

I literally struggled so much with the addiction to everything I live. For ten years in a life where I just wasn't completing the challenging activities that life has to offer. I lived an easy dough for me, so I relate massively. We tried to convince ourselves.

I literally struggled so much with the addiction to everything I live. For ten years in a life where I just wasn't completing the challenging activities that life has to offer. I lived an easy dough for me, so I relate massively. We tried to convince ourselves.

To go to the gym this morning. It was brutal to get ourselves there.

To go to the gym this morning. It was brutal to get ourselves there.

But I had this today and I was thinking, no, I'm going to elevate my dopemins through this hard work in the gym. That's going to put me in a more motivated state. It gives me a highlightlihood to have a good attention span during this conversation.

But I had this today and I was thinking, no, I'm going to elevate my dopemins through this hard work in the gym. That's going to put me in a more motivated state. It gives me a highlightlihood to have a good attention span during this conversation.

So I think considering the.

So I think considering the.

Ultimate outcome of the action and how it's going to impact your day ahead is key. There is this fundamental principle of dopamine that I really want people to understand though. And then with this idea, rather than needing to go on Instagram and think, Okay, what those good doping activities and what are the bad ones, with this simple principle, you just know. And whilst obviously it's good to look at those posts on Instagram that's what I post all the time, having this base understanding is very motivating. This chemical evolved within us for a very long time, and it evolved for one simple reason, to promote the survival of our specie. Without dopamine, we simply wouldn't be here. We would have never pushed ourselves to scratch rocks together for three hours to make the fire to keep our family warm. We would never would have gone through a Sahara desert for three hours in order to find a little bit of fruit to keep our family alive. It was rewarding the ridiculously challenging actor that kept us alive, just as doth Mean for all that time, had a very sophisticated way of communicating with humanity to keep us doing the hard things. Nowadays, we're experiencing the opposite message from this chemical. Fundamentally, doth Me knows at its core that over engaging with pornography and no longer having sex with people is not good for the survival of our specie. Eating too much sugar and not eating enough protein is not good for the survival of our specie. Living a very isolated teenage life and no longer building friendships and working in your school life and scrolling social media is not good for the survival of humanity. And it's really important to understand that whenever you're engaging in activity, if you simply observe the activity and think, ultimately, does this increase or decrease my survival and you think xcise obviously, increase protein, obviously, increase sugar, obviously, decrease pornography ultimately does technically decrease because it's reducing procreation. And then you have this fundamental principle when you then are looking at your activities and thinking how am I going to engage with my day?

Ultimate outcome of the action and how it's going to impact your day ahead is key. There is this fundamental principle of dopamine that I really want people to understand though. And then with this idea, rather than needing to go on Instagram and think, Okay, what those good doping activities and what are the bad ones, with this simple principle, you just know. And whilst obviously it's good to look at those posts on Instagram that's what I post all the time, having this base understanding is very motivating. This chemical evolved within us for a very long time, and it evolved for one simple reason, to promote the survival of our specie. Without dopamine, we simply wouldn't be here. We would have never pushed ourselves to scratch rocks together for three hours to make the fire to keep our family warm. We would never would have gone through a Sahara desert for three hours in order to find a little bit of fruit to keep our family alive. It was rewarding the ridiculously challenging actor that kept us alive, just as doth Mean for all that time, had a very sophisticated way of communicating with humanity to keep us doing the hard things. Nowadays, we're experiencing the opposite message from this chemical. Fundamentally, doth Me knows at its core that over engaging with pornography and no longer having sex with people is not good for the survival of our specie. Eating too much sugar and not eating enough protein is not good for the survival of our specie. Living a very isolated teenage life and no longer building friendships and working in your school life and scrolling social media is not good for the survival of humanity. And it's really important to understand that whenever you're engaging in activity, if you simply observe the activity and think, ultimately, does this increase or decrease my survival and you think xcise obviously, increase protein, obviously, increase sugar, obviously, decrease pornography ultimately does technically decrease because it's reducing procreation. And then you have this fundamental principle when you then are looking at your activities and thinking how am I going to engage with my day?

You really want to be thinking how am I going.

You really want to be thinking how am I going.

To do activities that are going to lead to my day being the best experience it can be. And this comes downs that difference of do I just want to feel short term pleasure or do I want to feel really happy? And I had these questions with myself in my mind, I went on these walks every day in nature. I literally equate the entirety of my career, my working life, my ability to find my beautiful partner to walking in nature every day and having a proper, truthful conversation with myself of am I only in the pursuit of pleasure? And is that going to be my experience of life or am I going to experience a life that feels really happy and fulfilling? And when I wake in the morning, like this morning, and I think, Oh, I wonder what's been happening on social media? I want how many likes I got on this thing, whatever it might be, I asked myself the question do I want pleasure or do I want a really happy, fulfilling day, And that ultimate conversation leads to better decision making.

To do activities that are going to lead to my day being the best experience it can be. And this comes downs that difference of do I just want to feel short term pleasure or do I want to feel really happy? And I had these questions with myself in my mind, I went on these walks every day in nature. I literally equate the entirety of my career, my working life, my ability to find my beautiful partner to walking in nature every day and having a proper, truthful conversation with myself of am I only in the pursuit of pleasure? And is that going to be my experience of life or am I going to experience a life that feels really happy and fulfilling? And when I wake in the morning, like this morning, and I think, Oh, I wonder what's been happening on social media? I want how many likes I got on this thing, whatever it might be, I asked myself the question do I want pleasure or do I want a really happy, fulfilling day, And that ultimate conversation leads to better decision making.

Yeah, that's a great way to look at it, and I'm glad that you laid it out across the board. I mean, you've mentioned pornography a few times, and I feel like that's become just such a big issue now where I feel like when I was growing up, it was less of an issue. Then when it kind of took off, it was something that you kind of heard and people didn't talk about it as much, and now it's become like totally public, Like you know, there's talk about it in mainstream news, and not in a positive sense, but in the sense of you just see it becoming more normalized. But that doesn't mean people are using it less, if that makes sense, Like, yeah, for sure, does that definitely rapidly rise, and yeah, it's rapidly right. It's definitely at least now getting communicated about it is getting communicated about, yeah, but it isn't necessarily like, oh, we're talking about it more. You'd hope that, like, for example, when we talk about mental health more, you'd hope that it gets destigmatizing then people, whereas with pornography, it's kind of like it's being talked about more, but it's usage is like going through the roof, and so it's like, what, what have you seen work for people there? You've worked with people in doughs. I'm sure you've worked with people who've had like really deep pornography addictions.

Yeah, that's a great way to look at it, and I'm glad that you laid it out across the board. I mean, you've mentioned pornography a few times, and I feel like that's become just such a big issue now where I feel like when I was growing up, it was less of an issue. Then when it kind of took off, it was something that you kind of heard and people didn't talk about it as much, and now it's become like totally public, Like you know, there's talk about it in mainstream news, and not in a positive sense, but in the sense of you just see it becoming more normalized. But that doesn't mean people are using it less, if that makes sense, Like, yeah, for sure, does that definitely rapidly rise, and yeah, it's rapidly right. It's definitely at least now getting communicated about it is getting communicated about, yeah, but it isn't necessarily like, oh, we're talking about it more. You'd hope that, like, for example, when we talk about mental health more, you'd hope that it gets destigmatizing then people, whereas with pornography, it's kind of like it's being talked about more, but it's usage is like going through the roof, and so it's like, what, what have you seen work for people there? You've worked with people in doughs. I'm sure you've worked with people who've had like really deep pornography addictions.

Pornography addiction is fascinating because it's very different to alcohol and social media and sugar because it's very private. And when you say, for example, get really into alcohol and you become an alcohol like or maybe you just slightly overdrink, it becomes very apparent to your family and your friends that you're drinking a lot, whether you're going out partying a lot, or like every time you socialize, you're always requiring wine and beer in order to have a good time. The same happens with the phone like you're always engaging with it. The same happens with sugar. Pornography is like this secret addiction that society has, and that's why I think it's being massively underestimated. And where with these other actions things like eating chocolate, we know it has one hundred and fifty percent increase in dove mean from baseline, causing the spike and crash. When we engage with something like alcohol, it's a two hundred percent increase, cocaine two hundred and fifty percent increase. All of these different studies are showing us a lot about those actions, but very little is showing us much about pornography because it's a very private behavior. When we look into how people solve it, fundamentally, people need to become very clear as to how it's actually impacting their life. There's the whole moral and ethical side of pornography, and if that can motivate someone away from it, that's incredible. We're obviously looking with the dough lab more at what is it actually doing to your experience of life and your motivation and your dopamine levels. And for me, I grew up as someone that started engaging in porn I was like thirteen fourteen, I just heard that was a thing, searched on Google, discovered it was a thing, massive amount of pleasure, and then watched it. For like ten years of my life. I didn't think anything of it or my friends watched it. I didn't even feel any real guilt or shame around watching it because it was so normalized in the world that I grew up in, and it's very unusual to even be in this moment now, Like I never thought, oh, pornography is going to be something I hope I talk about one day on a show. But this really needs to be considered with mental health. It's something that society is definitely underestimating because if you think through the lens of sex versus pornography, and this idea of earning dopamine, sex, especially like a nice, intimate, loving experience of sex, is a slow progress. It's like you have a period of time together and maybe you have dinner together, and then you cuddle and then you kiss, and then eventually you have an intimate experience and then eventually have sex. It might be like twenty thirty minutes before that moment has happened. Pornography is very different. It's I'm scrolling Instagram, or that person's pretty good looking. Now I'm on a porn website, and within sixty seconds, it's like, you're all the way there.

Pornography addiction is fascinating because it's very different to alcohol and social media and sugar because it's very private. And when you say, for example, get really into alcohol and you become an alcohol like or maybe you just slightly overdrink, it becomes very apparent to your family and your friends that you're drinking a lot, whether you're going out partying a lot, or like every time you socialize, you're always requiring wine and beer in order to have a good time. The same happens with the phone like you're always engaging with it. The same happens with sugar. Pornography is like this secret addiction that society has, and that's why I think it's being massively underestimated. And where with these other actions things like eating chocolate, we know it has one hundred and fifty percent increase in dove mean from baseline, causing the spike and crash. When we engage with something like alcohol, it's a two hundred percent increase, cocaine two hundred and fifty percent increase. All of these different studies are showing us a lot about those actions, but very little is showing us much about pornography because it's a very private behavior. When we look into how people solve it, fundamentally, people need to become very clear as to how it's actually impacting their life. There's the whole moral and ethical side of pornography, and if that can motivate someone away from it, that's incredible. We're obviously looking with the dough lab more at what is it actually doing to your experience of life and your motivation and your dopamine levels. And for me, I grew up as someone that started engaging in porn I was like thirteen fourteen, I just heard that was a thing, searched on Google, discovered it was a thing, massive amount of pleasure, and then watched it. For like ten years of my life. I didn't think anything of it or my friends watched it. I didn't even feel any real guilt or shame around watching it because it was so normalized in the world that I grew up in, and it's very unusual to even be in this moment now, Like I never thought, oh, pornography is going to be something I hope I talk about one day on a show. But this really needs to be considered with mental health. It's something that society is definitely underestimating because if you think through the lens of sex versus pornography, and this idea of earning dopamine, sex, especially like a nice, intimate, loving experience of sex, is a slow progress. It's like you have a period of time together and maybe you have dinner together, and then you cuddle and then you kiss, and then eventually you have an intimate experience and then eventually have sex. It might be like twenty thirty minutes before that moment has happened. Pornography is very different. It's I'm scrolling Instagram, or that person's pretty good looking. Now I'm on a porn website, and within sixty seconds, it's like, you're all the way there.

Your don't mean it's so high.

Your don't mean it's so high.

We then went through the process of getting people to just try and have seven days without watching it. Just okay, seven days, you're not going to watch it. If you need to engage with the activity, you simply watch it. You simply do the activity, but you use your imagination, and even with that, you try and reduce it to maybe twice a week rather than what a lot of people, particularly men, but I think women struggle with this as well. That's what we're seeing in our research and now doing it sort of seven days a week, you have seven days off and you very closely observe your motivation, your attention span, and your general kind of enthusiasm and excitement for life. People then come off it for the first time, maybe in their whole life, because they never even considered it was a factor in their mental health. They spend seven days off it, and they start genuinely noticing a difference. They're like, wow, I actually feel different without this activity. I felt so different when I first came off it. I remember texting some of my friends and they're like, God, what is teaching going to have us doing?